The tribe has two land-into-trust applications pending at the Bureau of Indian Affairs and will likely have to show that it was under "federal jurisdiction" in 1934 in order to benefit. But tribal leaders say they will pass the test.
"We don't see this as having any effect on us," Vice Chairman Aaron Tobey said. "Keep in mind, we have deed to 16,000 acres in Mashpee dated before 1934 ... we have deeds dating to the 1600s."
but alas, carverchick actually does have a day job with a lot going on this week....so for now, I want to post this response from a friend who actually gets it....
...if they want to scare us with their media quotes, then they had better gets their facts straight. I’m not scared of anyone who is stupid enough to believe that one application for 2 tracts of land is 2 applications. Don’t they do math down there in Mashpee?
Neither am I scared, my friend....neither am I. Upon reading this, I can only assume that Mr. Tobey still hasn't read the one and only application.
So, my dear friend, because you always know just what to say...this one is for you - I will always remember the chuckle we had over this song and how funny it was that it was the last song played that one time before casino....eerrrrr...coffee shop talk aired. It was one of the few times I have laughed over all of this.
oh - and from the "irony department" ....this song was sung by "Scandal".
Bu-bye Mashpee Wampanoag Tribal Middleboro casino....
Whoops.....I mean....bu- bye bingo-hall....
- be the change you want to see in the world -
37 comments:
Great tune.
If simple math and reading comprehension is an issue, my I suggest they go back to school. But, not at U-Mass Dartmouth. They might get "Professor" Barrows. He can only count cars.
Intuition seems to indicate that states have had their fill of loosing control and taxes to sovereignty and that the ruling would stand, but I'm looking forward to your fact filled comments supporting intuition.
The current Congress seems to have a full plate of bank takeovers and economic collapse that seems to trump Herb Strather and Aaron Tobey and a Tribe that continues to prove itself incapable of self governance. Any hearings or action would be limited to next year at the earliest.
Many of us are looking forward to your comments and hope you find time soon to share.
Aaron Tobey says the Tribe has deeds going back to the 1600s. It seems to me you only need deeds to land if you didn't already own the land to begin with. The Mashpee Tribe claim they were the ones who greeted the Pilgrims which leads one to assume they were in Mashpee before any white man came to these shores.
If that's the case why the need for a deed? I'll tell you why. Its because the Mashpee "Tribe" did not exist. The land was deeded to the "Praying Indians" by a chief of the Nauset Tribe of Cape Cod, at the request of a prominent English minister of the time, so they could have a settlement of their own.
I don't deny the Wampanoags living in Mashpee have Native American ancestry but they were never a "tribe" in the sense that term is applied to other bands of indigenous people.
Maybe Mr. Tobey is beginning a meltdown with the realization that the Mashpee Wampanoag's invented history is about to come crashing down.
They can prove they were under federal jurisdiction in 1934?
How? I don't think Abramoff is a available to help them out with that one.
I have a deed to land in Middleboro. Does that mean I'm under Federal jurisdiction? Where's my casino? Can I at least get a scratch ticket?
OMG CC!
I had forgotten all about that! I remember now. It was right after the new regs were released. How appropriate that this song was the one we both heard!
And sung by Scandal?? Too funny.
Thank you for all your hard work, all your enthusiasm, and all the times you made me laugh about this. You've been a Godsend. It is to my great fortune that I can call you friend.
Now hurry back!!!! You are missed, and no celebration will be complete without you!
Thank you to the lord above, they all get it!
No fix can or will happen.
America, state governors, we/they have had it with the investers raping the U.S. citizens AND the Indian Tribes. Believe me when I tell you, (as in any big business), the money does not trickle down to the rest of the tribe.
Can't wait for your next blog. Thank you carverchick.
Well, these folks probably had the 'done deal' thing whispered in their ears over cigars and fishing trips with investors and handlers. And unlike us, they wanted to believe. Because there was big money in it for them.
Did Whittlesey ever warn Middleboro that this ruling could be on it's way? It was no secret in his circles or in Indian Country. Did anyone ever warn the Mashpee?
And if so, did they listen?
Or maybe they did listen - and that was the reason for the rush to get the town to sign the IGA. Hmmm. Who was behind that? (insert sarcasm emoticon here.)
I cannot stand hearing this talk about a "fix". It was broken, now IT IS FIXED.
The facts: Thank you carverchick for always giving us the true facts.
A thank you to your friend who is the only person in Middleboro that did the (correct)research from the very beginning,(07), and got her facts right from the source, not the tribe or the media,(this is why they were the true facts), THANK GOD!!
Waiting wait for your next blog.
We seem to have a math issue with the whole crew.
Ferson keeps counting "never" as "18 months".
cc,
As a hypothetical -
Prior to SCOTUS decision, could the BIA and DOI have accepted Mashpee into LIT, but rejected Middleboro for numerous reasons including no historical ties, casino shopping and so on?
Or would they have had to reject the entire package because it was one submission?
The not so veiled threats to re-open the land suit against Mashpee if the Tribe doesn't get their LIT and casino reveals how dishonorable this tribe is.
Mashpee agreed not to oppose recognition if the Tribe didn't put a casino in Mashpee.
As soon as the Tribe gained recognition, they said all bets are off.
Then they negotiated another agreement that had to be approved at town meeting agreeing not to reopen the land suit.
Now the spoiled brats are saying that because of SCOTUS, they're gonna re-open the land suit?
Somebody needs to see these people for the greedy opportunists they are when they can't even abide by agreements they sign.
That means Middleboro has to have some sense to recognize who they're dealing with.
anon 11:11
I cannot answer your question with absolute certainty because a dual initial reservation request (i.e. 2parcels of land over 30 miles apart submitted in one applicatipon) has never been submitted before. I can tell you, however, that getting an initial reservation proclaimation approval is the most difficult route to take when asking for LIT. In fact, only 2 other initial reservation LIT requests have been approved to date....one other is pending. Tribes and investors applying for LIT to game do not like to take this route because it is extremely difficult to be approved under one of the exceptions. The Mashpee had no choice but to go this way in order to secure the approval for a resort bingo hall. And no, they did not meet the significant historical ties requirement.
My guess...the LIT application would have been either approved or denied as a whole....all or nothing. No, yes to Mashpee land and no to Middleboro. But at this point it no longer matters...the most excellent decision by SCOTUS has made sure of that.
Carverchick, Thank you for all your work for the last two years. As a Middleboro resident I appreciate what you have done to preserve my way of life.
Great point Gladys regarding the rush to sign the IGA. Now I understand why the case before the SCOTUS was not mentioned prior to TMFH and why the unbelievable speed this deal was put together. Also why Scotty kept insisting on 18 months. He knew it had to be done by then or the deal was toast
It would be interesting who knew and when they knew it. Perhaps this question should be asked at the next BOS meeting on video even if not included in the minutes.
As far as the tribe going back on their word with the town of Mashpee, that is not a surprise to me. These people are not the true Mashpee Wampanoag, these are the Watchmee Makealots.
Carverchick,
We missed you so much at Carol's party. We all have to get together and have one BIG celebration! Smoking Owl and Nocasino have to come as well, they've written such great comments
....and I CAN'T figure out WHO they are!
"The only one in Middleboro" WTF? Where the hell were you when we, Middleboro residents, began this fight from our front lawns?
You people are throwing your shoulders out patting yourselves on the back. "The pro- and anti-casino factions have amounted to nothing," Eayrs said. "This was ultimately decided by something outside Middleborough."
Going to the town hall, asking the BOS directly, Putting lawn signs out again and again, replacing your mailbox with 1/4" thick one, getting in altercations with police, questioning the school board, who are your neighbors. Calling out the IBEW and professional scumbag strikers, 22 feet from your front door.
You people have blogged. To each other.
The town is still run by the same board full of nitwits, the police, fire, teachers and IBEW are still there and wrong as ever. Yet, never have they been challenged expect by one or two brave people.
The state of Massachusetts will put in slots, no victory there. The recall vote was a disaster, congratulations there. Over 2/3 of our budget goes to crooked retirement and union benefits, no change coming soon. The land was questionable to begin with and now is owned by a mobster from Detroit, that worked out. Your efforts have done squat. You lost the vote on a very basic argument, “If they build a casino, then, you should have an agreement in place, if you don’t you get nothing.” No matter how many time the league of women voters has an expert in gambling give a speech, will it change that basic fact. It was a failure at the town meeting.
This is not over, and for people who have lost friends and sleep as well as any sense of security, it will not be over, ever.
Nothing comes from nothing, and bloggin away on your PC's producing nothing except maybe some solace fin your own little e-world. Which I could care less, but, being the only one in Middlboro? Blow it out your bloggin …
“Preserve my way of life?”
Are you stoned?
Carver can't do anything on Middleboro politics. Blogging, emails, letters do nothing as well, I know I have tried.
Listen, when we ask for votes, for signatures, for volunteers and a dozen out of 25,000 show up, those are the people you should be thanking. While you hid in your house, we were walking on the street with signs, while you were bloggin away, we were challenging the crooked police department. The nitwits on the board, the investor backed IBEW criminals. From our front lawns!!!
My way of life, well in fact, Carver did help. You can still sit in your house, watch cable, and blogg away by the fire.
Give it a rest.
Facts are. We lost the at the town meeting. We lost at the recall. We loast in the court of public opinion as most people in Massachusetts think a casino is a good idea, we lost exposing the crooked police, fire, and teachers union. All of this came with a price. We are also going to keep going. Next time, leave the house, come down to the town hall, and make a stand.
I am going to ask people if they have even read these silly blogs. My bet is; no. I guess the next question would be why? Good question.
This land into trust concept for casino shopping is easily rectified.
Make it a requirement that at least one third of Tribe members must reside permanently on land taken into trust as an initial reservation. Congress could set land area requirements that would have to be met in order to provide enough living space depending on the size of the tribe.
If the Wampanoags have a tribal membership of 2000, then 666 members would have to reside on the land in Middleboro. If tribal membership increased they would have to provide additional residences on their initial reservation land.
The effects would be two fold. It would limit their "pending" membership because they would have to keep a certain amount of open space for new residences. However, the new home construction would create jobs which would make the unions happy. Secondly, would they really want a casino on their sovereign land if they had to live next door to it?
Gee JohnAdams10...I'm not really sure where your hostility is coming from. I am also not sure what you mean by "the only one in Middleboro" and why it has you so wound up, but if you feel better by venting your anger on a post here, then good for you!
Faux Adams. Get a life will yeah or at least take a pill. You sound delusional. I guess venting is what he is really doing here. If looking and sounding stupid helps him, he has my pity.
john adams 10 you are an idiot!
John Adam 10,
I'm a blogger. The first one, anti-casino blogger from the Middleboro region actually. I was the one who suggested blogging for the cause, though I'd never blogged before.
I'm from Bridgewater. Not Middleboro, but I showed up for the first casinofacts meeting and at every selectman's meeting and every casino impact study meeting. Where were you? Where you there? Would I remember you? I blogged, wrote editorials helped design anti-casino webs sites free of charge and in my "free" time went around to other towns to speak, as a neighbor, about casino impacts. Where you there sitting beside me?
I've collected signatures on petitions all day in the hot sun. Were you there beside me?
I've sent out newsletters. Did you read them?
I was the one who worked at the State level to stop slots so that a Middleboro casino wouldn't get that much closer to a "done deal".
I've been to two national conferences to learn what I can and bring the effort back to stop a Middleboro casino.
Carverchick and the other bloggers have helped the effort in ways most people cannot even fathom through research and time and vigilance.
I have been blogging since June '07 and never stopping so that people KNOW WERE STILL ON THE MAP.
Maybe you don't see the relevance, but the media reads our blogs and the legislators listen to them. They may not influence many people directly, but indirectly they have been heard far and wide.
By the way, I've had my signs stolen, but gaveled by my own board of selectmen and dissmissed by my reps. But every day, since the day I heard a lawyer say a casino was a done deal, I've worked by backside off to prevent a casino in your town the best way I knew how. And whether you believe it's been effective or not, I know it has.
And yes, I've stood on sidewalks with signs, many times. My name and those of my children have dragged through on-line forums. I've received a death threat, been called a liar at a public hearing and NEVER EVEN GOT TO VOTE ON THIS CASINO.
So John Adams, have you ever stood beside me? Have you ever come to MY town? Have you ever lightened my load?
Change doesn't happen in a blink of an eye. If you really understood the time John Adams lived in, you'd realize that the American revolution began on little pieces of paper called "pamphlets" and the pamphleteers were the bloggers of their day.
Focus your anger on the people who deserve it - the ones at town hall who care more about the Tribe than your opinion or quality of life, and not on those who have tried to help.
Johnadams 10 feeling a little threatened because a little blogger girl has done more to disseminate the facts, raise awareness and stop the proposed casino than all your self serving egotistical martydom has done. Just because you are impotent in affecting change in your community doesn't mean Carverchick hasn't had a far reaching and high impact on the proposed casino decision. Read the Carcieri arguments and then go back and read her blogs. You will find that many of the arguments presented to the Supreme Court can be found word for word in her blogs. I think her tag line is most appropriate Be the change you want to see in the world. By the way I didn't see you standing next to me holding any sign. Take your skip rope and go home if you feel that way you whining little birch.
jackass10 I'm not hiding crybaby. I'm fighting from my front lawn and in the court of public opinion. The anti-casino group is winning because they are right. This was a blatent case of casino shopping. If you don't think so ask a wampanoag what the Carcieri decision means to them. Do they even know? "My bet is; no. I guess the next question would be why? Good question."
Damn good question.
Does John Adams 10 hand Carverchick a paycheck at the end of the week? No? Then why does he think he can critique her work ethic.
He can't.
We're all lucky to have her and the other VOLUNTEERS who make the effort to shed light and effect change - while the Middleboro Board of Selectmen sit on their bums for two years with hands over their ears, pining for the days of 22 minute dog complaints.
Carverchick for Middleboro Selectman!
Ignorance 10,
They'll always be your kind that just "don't get it". I've learned over the past 2 years that your kind NEVER WILL get it. You're not worth the words I'm expressing.
You have to live in your skin, not me. You have my sympathies.
Sones like some people are still in the denial stage of pro-casino grief.
Denial stage or anger stage... either way, my friend who I blogged this to knows more about indian law than any pro or anti. This person is possibly the only one in Middleboro who actually took the time to do the research and get the facts. So if this person wasn't holding a sign or being gavelled down at Town Hall, it was because this person was fighting the casino from a different angle -- the facts and the laws. Thank God for that! This person did what the Middleboro BoS didn't do....found out exactly how inevitable this casino isn't. The SCOTUS ruling was a godsend to us and we can thank people from all around this country for affecting that change.
I can understand JohnAdams10 frustration with his Town and BoS but give the rest of us a break, okay. We have done the best we can to fight this and believe it or not, letters do work.
BTW - since I live in Carver, I have no say in your Town politics and certainly don't vote in your Town. I do have a say in my Town's politics and have spoken with my BoS as well as other town commissions regarding this casino - and have been welcomed with open arms and no gavel. Everyone can affect change, and do, even when it sometimes doesn't seem obvious on the surface.
All I will say to JohnAdams10 is, if you are so upset with how things were handled over the past two years in your Town, then do something about it. If it doesn't work the first time, then do something else, then something else. You accuse me of hiding out in my home doing nothing but blogging on my PC yet you comment on my blog (which according to you, nobody reads) with anger and
frustration over how I have fought this. Well, at least I do fight and I don't give up. So sorry that my methods of fighting are unacceptable to you, but at least I don't whine about how nothing works...I keep trying, and I keep writing letters.
unbelievable.
Wow, was that John Adams, or his brother Sam?
Nocasino,
I'm still laughing!
I think JohnAdams10 knows the people fighting this casino. In fact, its quite possible that he is part of the CasinoFacts organization.
How does he know that the person discussed in this article wasn't holding signs? He does if he knows who CC is talking about. And VERY FEW people know who CC is referring to.
How does he know that CC blogs in front of a fire? He does if he has been to CC's house for a board meeting.
In a post on another blog, JohnAdams10 commented on how the we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back for the Carcieri decision because it wasn't our effort. He didnt call himself JohnAdams10, but the comments, the venom and the anger are the same.
One thing he did say; this fight isn't over until the land is no longer in the hands of the casino investors.
I saw those very same words in a letter recently. I don't think its a coincidence.
I know you JohnAdams10. You should tread lightly.
To JohnAdams10:
The comment about "the only one in Middleboro" was said in reference to doing the research on the law and the federal process.
The comment didn't say this person was the only one who fought the casino.
Jealous much?
John Adams 10. Wow! I think carverchick unearthed the anti's Mr. Limo! Good luck to all you anti's, you now have yours to deal with.
Sounds like john adams 10 had one to many at the Central.
Nocasino,
I think you're on to something.
I think it was a joint effort. JohnAdams10 was doing the typing but I think SamAdams was doing the thinking.
It's been a busy period of time for most of us: attempting to follow Tim Cahill's preening before the cameras, digest Carcieri v Salazar, the attacks of the BOS and much else.
Most of us have lives other than fighting the casino that we've done our best to abbreviate, simplify and attend to the best we can.
And each of us has contributed to the best of our ability based on our strengths. Some speak well in public. Some produce spectacular blogs and videos that have major impacts and so on.
But I believe I endured the first anonymous venting by John Adams, did my best to be respectful and address his issues on the following -- Sick And Tired Of This Crap.
I deleted several subsequent disrespectful comments in rebuttal since they were unproductive.
A great deal has been accomplished in the past 2 years for which those who participated and spoke out should be truly proud.
The Fearless Felon Casino Leader who labeled all challengers as racists is going to prison. And, OMG! Did you see his photo in the Globe? What a sour puss! His plea bargain mandates "cooperation" which means he's got roommates coming.
Scotty Fearsome said the casino would be built in 18 months and not a shovel has broken ground.
Carcieri sealed the coffin and the Tribe's Agreement with the investors makes it look like the Tribe may file for bankruptcy before Twin Rivers.
We have major problems to address in Middleboro and surrounding communities that have little to do with the casino. The economy has created major challenges to provide comparable services with reduced resources and much else.
We need to work together to accomplish the challenges ahead without dallying with the JohnAdamses of the world.
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